Being frugal is a good habit to adopt if you want to build more wealth. However, it is very hard to frugal your way to early retirement. Instead, it’s much better to try and earn more income since the upside is limitless.
Surprisingly, I didn’t receive much pushback from my post,APP亚博娱乐 .
Almost everyone got the gist, which was to help you question whether the pursuit of early retirement is counterproductive if you have to live like a pauper. Instead, perhaps finding a job you actually enjoy doing would be a better use of your time.
Yes, a couple of readers jabbed at me using the words “coastal elite” as a pejorative term to say how out of touch I am that 200% of FPL is a near poverty wage. But come on, this isn’t politics. It wasn’t I who set the rules. If you find the FPL levels insulting, call your power-hungry Congressman or woman!
The government says that if you earn up to 400% of FPL, then you are considered poor enough to get healthcare subsidies versus paying extra to subsidize others. In general, it’s better to give than to receive. If we all become takers then our country is screwed.
I also acknowledge in the post that earning 300% to 400% of FPL seems totally fine in non-coastal cities.
在这篇文章中，我想强调一些脱节也许你们中的一些人谁是生活在200%或更少的FPL没有认识到。让我用一个读者的预算来做准备。
My main goal is for all of you to focus on generating as much wealth as possible through income and investments. Afterthe pandemic scare，这比以往任何时候都重要look for investment opportunities.
当数以百万计的人失业时，仅仅依靠你的日常工作并不是明智的选择。
Hard To Frugal Your Way To Early Retirement
读者乔，23岁，住在宾夕法尼亚州的一个乡村小镇。他租房住，有两个室友。他相信靠200%的FPL生活是很好的。他的计划是以节俭的方式提前退休，他的预算解释如下：
The “do-ability” of retiring at 200% of the poverty level is not so bad if you live in a poor area. Not all of us are coastal elites. Consider that $25,000 a year goes a long way when rent is $650 a month.
Here’s my monthly budget:
租金：650美元
车险：48美元
汽油：65美元
电话：30美元
食物：150美元
Grooming:$ 20
杂项：100美元
健康：72美元
博彩：65美元
酒：50美元
总计：1250美元
Obviously, healthcare would go up upon retirement, but miscellaneous and gas costs would go down. This budget is $1,250 a month of spending. If you earned $25,000 a year, that would net to about $22,500 which gives you $1,875 a month.
这是525美元fun money, which is pretty sweet. I mean, you can go to dinner at Applebees for like $25, go bowling for $5 an hour, etc. There’d be money for vacations too.
First of all, I commend Joe for living so frugally and appreciating his lifestyle. So many of us seem to not acknowledge how truly great we have it in America. Even with a 200% of FPL income, you will still live much better than millions of others across the world.
乔reminds me of my situation when I first got a job in NYC. I shared a studio with a friend for two years before moving on to share a two bedroom, one bathroom apartment with two others.
For more details, see:经济自由住房支出指南
从一开始,过着简朴的生活,帮我保存and invest aggressively for the rest of my life. Once you get your costs down, your wealth really begins to compound through consistent investing.
There are just several problems with Joe’s budget that needs to be addressed.
Frugal Budget Early Retirement Disconnect
在这里，我认为乔和其他认为靠200%的FPL生活的人在提前退休方面是错误的。
1） “生活在贫困地区。”
财富越多，基础设施越好，学校越好，餐馆越好，娱乐选择越多，自由活动越多，犯罪率越低。
理性的人会选择住得越老越富裕越好的地方，而不是越穷的地方。在极端情况下，一旦你能负担得起住在封闭的社区里，你就不会想继续住在毒品泛滥的街区里。见鬼，有些人可能想环游世界。
It’s easy to slum it when you’re 23. By the time you’re 50, you’re going to find it harder to continue sleeping on a cold cement slab. I swear, Applebees will start tasting disgusting after your 1,000th visit.
2) Thinking you’ll only have yourself to take care of.
When you’re 23 and single, it’s easy to think your budget won’t change because you’re only responsible for yourself. It’s also easy to feel invincible. But as we know, there are plenty of people in their 20s who can’t even take care of themselves because他们的父母还在.
但你猜怎么着？生活就是这样。你的父母可能生病，需要经济援助。他们可能还需要你的时间，这会降低你赚钱的潜力。你也可能会生病。你甚至可能会找到一个你关心的人，想要成家。从只照顾自己到照顾两个或两个以上的人可能是一个巨大的经济负担。
虽然200%的FPL收入随着家庭规模的增加而增加，但相应的收入增长往往不足以应付抚养子女的压力。你还想把一切都给你的孩子，这很容易超过联邦政府增加的FPL预算。
Life is not static, no matter how hard it is for you to see the future.
3） 你不能提前退休，因为你的收入太低了。
This is the biggest disconnect of them all. People who live super frugally today, mostly because they have a modest income, think they can retire early because of their frugal budget. Let’s review the早退过着贫穷或接近贫穷的生活chart again.
比方说，你真的很早就退休了，只有你自己照顾。若要以个人名义以200%的FPL（24280美元）为生，您需要在5%至2%的回报率或提取率的基础上，拥有485600美元至1214000美元的应税投资组合。
Now let’s say you’re Joe, who happily makes $25,000 a year in gross income and lives with two roommates in a poor area. He gets to spend $525 monthly on fun activities. However, what if Joe had no fun and instead invested 100% of his fun money in order to retire early. How long will it take for Joe to amass the needed $485,600 – $1,214,000 to retire?
Using a 4% withdrawal rate and a 7% compound return on his $6,300/year in savings, it would take Joe30年没有乐趣提前退休. For only then will he have enough to spend $525/month on himself.
但另一个问题是，30年后，如果按3%的通胀率计算，他现在的525美元购买力只有225美元。
当然，生活在200%的FPL是更可行的，一旦你不再需要储蓄退休或支付抵押贷款。但一开始就很难靠这么低的收入退休或拥有一套还清的房子。没有一个理性的人会从一个更高的收入中退休，然后过着如此简朴的生活。在你真正尝试之前，节俭地提前退休听起来是个不错的计划。
The Better Early Retirement Strategy
当然，在接下来的30年里，乔不会一年只赚25000美元。事实上，他在随后的评论中提到，他赚了大约35000美元。但如果他已经有了这样一种心态，即赚200%的FPL就足够了，那么他很可能不会采取进一步的措施来增加他的收入.
The key is to make as much money as possible while also keeping expenses as fixed as possible. So long as your earnings are growing faster than the rate of your spending, you’re winning. And so long as you diligently invest more of your savings every month in a risk-appropriate manner, you’re really going to win out in the long-run.
I really want to encourage readers to培养富足的心态. Don’t settle for living on the minimum. The desire to frugal your way to early retirement is a scarcity mindset.
Instead, strive to earn more so you can not only retire early but also have the活下去的选择权.
Know that the amount of money you can make out there is endless. There’s only so much cost you can cut. Instead of retiring early on a meager portfolio, find a job you enjoy. Keep on working until your portfolio can generate at least 300% of FPL in passive income.
不要低估医疗和家庭的成本。因为它们是你最重要的资产，你会不惜任何代价来保持它们的强大。
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保持在你的资产净值的顶端个人资本, the web’s #1 free financial app. Track your cash flow, x-ray your investment portfolio for excessive fees and inappropriate risk exposure, and use their retirement calculator to plan for the future. There’s no rewind button in life. Make the most of everything, especially things that are helpful and free.
读者们，你们还观察到了关于Financial Independence Retire Early movement? 你有没有试着节俭地提前退休？为什么不去无限的上升呢？
山姆，这是真的！多好的文章啊。我认为年轻人不会考虑结婚生子之类的事情。当我20多岁和父母住在一起的时候，我也是一个超级节俭的储蓄者。但后来生活发生了-我恋爱了，结婚了，现在我有了一个很棒的妻子和世界上最可爱的小宝宝！它们对我来说价值超过一万亿美元。我们仍然尽可能多地存钱，但是有了妻子和孩子，如果我还像以前那样挣花生，我们就不可能活下来。
也许这将帮助如果等到所有的人their children reach school age, before they finalize their retirement spending budgets and judge others? First things first, as the saying goes :-)
Wonderful! Congrats to you.
It’s hard for a parent to deprive their kids of every opportunity, if they can afford it. Therefore, we tend to spend and push back our retirement savings. It is only logical.
Make it count when it counts the most. We only have a limited time with our kids! None of us parents want to regret not having done everything for our children while we could.
我岳父95岁了，患有痴呆症，住在家里。他的退休金足以支付他的需要。我们刚刚卖掉了他毕生的房子，作为POA，我需要把钱放在对受益人安全的地方，而不是有风险的地方，这样他们就不会带着任何责任回来找我了。他一死，基本上就是他们的钱。有什么建议可以把钱放在哪里为他们赚钱吗？
I think there’s another critical thing our friend “Joe” who is so happy go lucky needs to consider about his “poor area” utopia. When a recession hits and jobs go away, there will likely be much less opportunity in these regions of the country.
It’s a good point. Check out the list ofyabo live .
你不想呆在一个较小的，不太活跃的地区，在那里一个工厂或任何东西可能会摧毁整个经济。
我的公司提供401k比赛，100%到3%，50%到6%，平均到4.5%。他们还提供401k Roth。
I have 9% invested in the 401k and 6% invested in the 401k Roth for a total of 15% of my earnings.
Should I just match the 4.5% for the 401k and take the rest of my earning and look for other investments? Or should I keep saving the way I am.
我知道这是一个广泛的问题，但我想打开这个对话，因为我没有找到太多的网上。
对此有很多好的评论。亚博app下载ios你肯定希望在你的投资组合/收入流中有一个很好的额外缓冲，以确保安全，因为在很长一段时间内，紧急情况/事故等很可能会发生（而且它们需要花钱来处理）。我喜欢找一份你喜欢的工作，即使是兼职来赚钱。我不介意工作，但这是整整一周繁重的工作和通勤，一段时间后磨损瘦。我认为，如果你能找到合适的情况，大多数人都有一些带宽和热情，每周工作几天。
这真是荒谬。尽管很明显，有那么多博客作者，包括Money Mustache先生，确实“挫败”了他们实现财务独立的道路，但这篇文章中有那么多可怕的假设，我无法回应。
1） “穷人”可能是一个糟糕的词语选择（没有双关语的意思），但生活成本低的地区并不一定犯罪率更高；事实上，我想说的是，通常情况恰恰相反。我住在威斯康星州中部，我可以告诉你这是美国最安全的地方之一。我在一个小地铁里——郊区也有更安全、更便宜的地方。
2) Assuming someone is frugal because they need to be is another silly assumption. My spending is a touch more than the person above, and I earn about double. That’s the point of FIRE – earn more than you spend, the more the better, and the faster you reach financial independence. With more jobs being location independent, living in a LCOL place makes financial sense.
3） 节俭并没有阻止我为挣钱而工作的想法。不到十年前，我开始全职工作以来，我的工资增加了80%。我还开发了侧壳。在两者之间画一个不存在的关联是荒谬的。
So far this is the second post I’ve come across on your blog and each of them were eye-rolling and out of touch. I started my own blog for this very reason – for people who live in smaller towns and cities, to give voice to their perspective, because they are lost among these coastal elites. This post just illustrated to me that it’s more needed than I suspected.
Thank you for the follow up. I felt the previous post missed the mark by trivializing the hardships of persons actually living in poverty. This is better, but I still think it is problematic to use the same poverty line, or minimum income as a percentage of the poverty line, for all 48 contiguous states. the cost of living varies widely and that’s before considering each persons comfort level or whether they would rather eat at Applebee’s or continue to work. Just because the federal government does it doesn’t mean we can’t learn from their mistakes.
如果从节俭到经济独立是痛苦的，那你就错了！
Financial Independence is the detachment from other people money – their money can no longer enslave you.
Financial Freedom is the freedom from money itself – money have very little or no role in the true meaning of your life.
平均而言，财务独立需要10年、15年、20年到30年的规划和执行——这是第一个财务英里标记。
经济自由要难得多，因为经过10年、15年、20年和30年的穷追不舍，我们中的大多数人都习惯于和僵化于我们狭隘而错误地为自己设计的生活。
有一个神秘的历史一般(220 - 280 /D in China) who had been conditioned and hardened in battles and forgo the opportunity to have his own family, mate and children. In his 70’s, he begged the strategist to put him in the last big battle because it is the only life he understood after so many years – he died in that last epic battle.
Financial Independence is a worthy endeavor, but the full spectrum of life begins after the Financial Freedom mile marker!
对于那些玩游戏带着小孩提前退休的人来说，当一个人成家和长大后，生活费会增加很多。早在2010年，当我们以为除了拥有一套没有抵押贷款的房子之外，还可以凭借150万美元的资产退休时，我们每年的支出“只有”6万美元，或者说，带着一个6岁的孩子，每月的支出只有5万美元。
Now in 2019, our monthly expenses has increased to $14K due to: food/groceries $3K, education $3K, and travel $3K. Our lifestyle hasn’t really changed much, it’s just you’re now travelling at peak seasons which tripled your expenses, and your teenage kid eats like a horse, and even for public schools, you need to pay for books, clothings, dental works, extra-curricular activities like sports, tutoring, amortized college tuition savings, etc..
Even if you can keep the food and travel down, can you really say no when your kid wants to try out club sports, or when the school orchestra goes on the summer tour to Europe? We’re currently planning to retire when our kid goes to college, but even with his tuition and room and board fully saved up, we’ll really have to wait and see how the expenses will look (if they go to out of state college, who’s flying and how often?)..
It’s one thing to plan for income replacement, but people should pay equal attention to their living expense increases if they still have young children.
Am I staring at an elephant in the room? He thinks on his 25k budget that he can retire, but there is zero being invested for said retirement? Regardless of if you’re of the FatFIRE or LeanFIRE mentality, you’ll never reach FI, never mind RE (if that’s even one’s intent) if you don’t put something away. Pensions are going the way of the dodo, and are lucrative for those that have them, and not so much so for those whose benefactor’s go broke and declare bankruptcy. A well-funded 401k with a company match is the best thing to hope for, the closest thing to a pension the current working generations will likely see in most instances. $525 blow money sounds like a lot–and leaves room for lifestyle creep, too. Such a low working income will not equate to much in the way of social security–the other “pension” that may or may not be a reliable source in the future.
There will always be extremes, but I am definitely enjoying the lively discussion and variety of viewpoints!
他实际上说他每年赚35000美元，据说每年投资20000美元。
Thanks for all your hard work and advice, Sam. You certainly come at the world from a different angle than I do in many regards, primarily the fact that you live in an expensive costal city and I live in a midwestern college town (Bloomington, IN specifically, which – although in an awful red state – is very blue, very beautiful, very safe and a very affordable city in which to live). Another difference is that I don’t see you write all that much about pensions and social security income, which comprises all the money my wife and I need to live on although we do have a 7-figure portfolio (we earn enough from my pension alone to probably never need to touch our investments; we own our home outright on a 3/4 acre lot in a nice neighborhood within the city limits; and have zero debt, all of which makes SS look like icing on the cake).
When talking investments, SS income is often overlooked as a reliable (for now) steam of income that could – were one to live long enough – be worth well over a half millions dollars. And it doesn’t take any discipline or sacrifice to invest the money during ones working years to reap the eventual dividends. That decision is made for you (for now) and, for boomers like myself anyway, who have additional sources of retirement income, it can provide the extra income needed to continue boosting the value of your portfolio.
我认为自己是幸运的，而不是精明的，在经历了32年的职业生涯（我在早年继续接受教育的时候就已经在梦想中的工作了）之后，我妻子在56岁退休了（她从公司退休时有一个非常慷慨的提前退休奖励计划），我57岁，我们没有回头看。祝你和所有读者好运！
FS有一些关于养老金和如何量化的历史文章。
不记得党卫军上有没有，但我怀疑至少有一个。
养老金的价值取决于你用来量化回报的衡量标准。如果你还没有的话，我会检查你养老金的财务状况。
就个人而言，我们的养老金改革减少了福利，但巩固了养老金的长期健康。一些养老金尚未进行改革，面临着巨大的危险。
与其他州相比，印第安纳州的雇员和州资助的大学养老金在财务上并不是最健全的（位于第二梯队的某个地方，大约63%的资金——资产与养老金总负债的比例），但肯定没有任何麻烦，在我有生之年，我的州宪法保障养老金不太可能受到影响。
但是如果这一切都改变了我和我的妻子有一个如果zable investment portfolio to draw upon, so… I’m not losing any sleep. And in the meantime we’re spending far less than we earn and investing the difference, so the proportion of our passive earnings (specifically stocks, bonds and hard assets such as gold, silver and real estate) will increase compared to my pension earnings (which of course are fixed).
很明显，如果可能的话，我宁愿不去碰那些东西，给我的两个孩子留点东西，让他们在未来的艰难时期减轻他们的挣扎，但我永远不会卖掉我的房子，搬进棚屋吃土豆，即使是在最坏的情况下。[是啊，著名的遗言，我知道！:)]
We have the same pension constitutional protections where we are.
A very unlikely but not impossible scenario is a state going insolvent. A state would have the ability to negotiate liabilities in that case. That could turn a state pension into pennies on the dollar settlement. It’s a very small probability but not impossible.
Regardless, with your investments it sounds like you have the ability to withstand pretty much any rainy day.
Our household is close to having a paid for home with no other liabilities. We could retire now, but are putting another ten years in and retiring late 50s. Really not FIRE. More like FIRH. Financial Independence Retire Happy.
我们喜欢工作。我们分配45%的投资，现金，529和额外的抵押贷款本金每月支付。最重要的是，我们正在做大量的罗斯转换每年。他只是翻了翻眼睛。
Our lives are simple, not minimal. We have the ability to help family and friends often.
We have a steady and strong pace set. We are in no hurry. It’s a journey and we Intend on fully enjoying it.
好的评论和一个坚实的计划，为现在和未来。这是最重要的秘密：区分两者，同时学习如何最大限度地发挥两者的潜力。你不可能活40年，然后期待着继续当金钱滚滚而来。相反地，像一个穷光蛋一样生活，为一个人工作了一辈子，却把所有的钱都存起来准备退休，这会让你的努力没有什么可展示的，也许除了一个装满你不知道如何享受的钱的银行。保持平衡至关重要，尤其是在中产阶级国家。
当我们的收入在职业生涯后期接近中上阶层的数字时，这使得我们的救火计划有了一些加速，当我们最终退休时，我们的收入介于两者之间。我和我妻子都不认为自己富有，但我们的余生在经济上会很舒适。
And we’re the same way: we give to charities and preferred political candidates but also put our two children through college, leaving neither them or us with a dime of debt after the fact. And we like to help too: we bought them each safe, late-model cars when they got their licenses, then again when they got their degrees. Next time however, I’m afraid they’re on their own (I have my eye on an Audi Q5 for myself this time!)
去吧od luck with your FIRH plan!
I have to say that the FIRE movement can be very tempting. Nowadays, there are so many blogs and videos about how to live frugally and achieve early retirement before 40 or even earlier – who wouldn’t want that? There is no surprise that more and more people having their struggle earning more $$$, decide to cut their spending to an extreme level to achieve their goals and gain financial independence. Even I (being very entrepreneurial since an early age) was initially very interested in the FIRE movement. I liked reading Mr Money Mustache or Frugalwoods. But in the end, my conclusion was the same as Sams – “There’s only so much cost you can cut”! You always have a chance to use your skills and time to make extra money (with enough willpower and having an actual plan). Building business or side hustles is a lot of fun! I also struggled at one point and had no idea how I will increase my income. I always wanted to invest but was 100% consumed by my job. I admire Sam for building this blog while working in finance, I know the struggle. My career started in M&A where I was very unhappy, but I managed to change the company, get better working hours and have time for other meaningful activities! It’s not a success story (yet) but it works for me.
“Financially retarded” refers to my ex-girlfriend. A long story, I won’t go into it here. I’m talking about a woman who couldn’t begin to understand money. Give her $100 and she’d fritter it away at warp speed in the span of a few hours. Her income was at the poverty level, living paycheck to paycheck, and she couldn’t begin to understand my lifestyle. Her worldview came courtesy of modern movies and TV shows. Sadly she’s not unique! She didn’t grow up in poverty either. As I understood it, at one point her parents had a million or so and lost it. She didn’t learn from that. If you read these financial blogs you’ll come across something called Poverty Mindset which is basically the polar opposite of frugality and self-reliance. A relationship between being poor and making poor life choices is another way of putting it. Prepare and save for the future vs. spend it all now and live for today.
There are consequences for our actions. The government wants us to be reckless consumers. Peer pressure and commercial bombardment ensures this ever more so, surrounding us with Wants. Maybe it’s a matter of survival instinct, intelligence, and the ability to break away from the herd. Maybe mental maturity. The ability to override instant gratification for the sake of the future.
Don’t get into the habit of having things done for you. Learn to do things for yourself. The important things. Above all, don’t become wrapped-up in the Image you project. Image leads to narcissism which leads to laziness and the spendthrift mentality we have with keeping up with the Joneses. Something like that.
你就是不明白，麦克阿瑟·惠勒。（我的生活方式并不完美，只是经济上还算体面；但这是一个意见问题，你的里程数会有所不同！）
我7位数的净资产是通过牺牲我的一生获得的。任何人都可以做到这一点，只要他们有意志力和独立性，不随大流。从众和地位正在扼杀美国。我周围都是经济上有缺陷的人，他们“现在就想要一切！“我不想为了得到它而努力工作。我想你可以称之为千禧一代的心态。我不知道。如果你过的是一种即时满足的生活，而不是储蓄，那么当你年老时一贫如洗，无法退休，生活在持续的经济恐惧中时，就不要做一个爱哭的孩子。要求你成为邻居集团的一员比为将来存钱更重要。如果真的有痛苦的话，那是代表那些放下我生活方式的人。它也不需要像豪华汽车那样的大笔开支。在星巴克喝一杯价值5美元的饮料就可以了。让我告诉你一件事。我父母做梦也想不到用这些钱买一杯。他们只喝加了一点牛奶的普通老咖啡，别的什么也没有，最好是在一台咖啡机里煮的，而不是一个基尔怪兽。
购物时口渴吗？我会找到最近的饮水机，或者耐心等几分钟开车回家。星巴克的人可能会因为我缺乏所谓的老练而贬低我。事实上，他们会认为我很穷，一文不名，智商很低！太糟糕了，我们不能比较净值。那永远不会出现。我不接受奢侈品的现状，所以这是一种歧视。在更大的范围内，我没有像我的邻居那样有一个游泳池，因为对我来说，这是一个你把钱扔到地上的洞。这个街区最大的洞是国王。我对资本主义有很多问题，我不想开始讨论，因为它在这里是不合适的。我们文化的制约和整合过程是我的愤怒，人们无法接受他们收获的东西（或缺乏），而生活在它之下。也许这是一个平衡的问题。对我有效的可能对你无效。
我喜欢调查后果。我知道喝酒对我周围的人有什么影响，所以我不喝酒。我知道超支对我周围的人有什么影响，所以我存钱比花钱多。对你来说这就是现实。找到自己的平衡点。
Great comment. All I can say is DITTO.
没有什么可以得到的。生活在量入为出的水平之下，年复一年地用风险适当的资产配置和复利来投资差额，并不是顿悟。虽然有些人没有运用这种简单而有效的理财策略，但这并不意味着他们像你雄辩地说的那样“财务迟钝”。也不意味着人们随大流或要求即时满足。有时生活中发生的事情会使事情变得困难。所以你每天都努力变得更好。学习。和适应。善待人类同胞。
The theme of the post by Sam is that achieving FIRE is exponentially more difficult on a limited income stream. A person increases their chances over time if they seek to increase the incoming amount of clams. Minimalism in all things makes it tough. Especially if you are responsible for 2 or 3 or 4 other people.
Personal finance educators like Sam and the esteemed Dave Ramsey are positively impacting a lot of people like me and the people you refer to as financially retarded. Sam is making a difference.
Whether you can or can’t, you’re right.
Capitalism is what allows you to choose to live frugally, save, invest, and retire early. It gives you the choice. It also gives others the choice to spend into oblivion. It’s freedom, some people can use it to there advantage and some can’t, but at least you get to decide.
有趣的观点。作为一个生活在大都市地区的千禧一代，我在成长过程中的想法肯定和乔不一样。我一直想升迁，赚更多的钱，这样我就能买得起我珍视的更好的东西给我自己和我的家人（比如旅游就是一件大事）。他的观点可能有点简单化，但我们也可以把这当作另一种生活方式。想去Applebees度过余生没什么错。我可能永远不会这样生活，但我尊重他的观点。
What about using your rate of change or slope on income or career growth as a metric for early retirement? Sam alludes to this in the article but I have never seen a write-up about using that as a measure for making a key decision like hanging around another year. For example, if your career growth has flatten-out at a high-number and you have saved a bunch should you consider restarting in a new field at a much lower level that might provide more purpose and/or joy. Human happiness seems to correlate much closer to a positive direction as opposed to an absolute high number. In Joe’s example, if he’s seeing positive growth in money or purpose, stick to it, otherwise leverage FIRE to change his direction.
“I really want to encourage readers to develop an abundance mindset. Don’t settle for living on the minimum.”
对我来说，这条线是区分成功者和普通人的区别。很多美国人认为他们已经足够努力了，但实际上他们付出的努力却很少。20年前我去了加州大学伯克利分校，虽然亚洲人只占美国人口的一小部分，但学校的一半是亚洲人。亚洲人不是天生聪明，我们只是工作更努力。我担心Z一代亚裔美国人和后代不会这么努力工作。
如果你想被鼓励在生活中更加努力，请阅读格兰特·卡多内的10倍法则。
The key to retiring early is about increasing your income and saving more. I’m 40 and can afford to retire now even though I’m not frugal because I worked my ass off to grow my business.
Two really important traits to being a successful student or adult:
1. self-discipline (harder said than done or we’d all be rich and skinny)
2专注于实现长期目标而不是屈从于短期快乐的能力（与自律和节俭有关）
You know many of your posts I side with the costal elite makes you out of touch crowd. The idea of middle class at 300k in most of the US for example is worth a chuckle….
但我同意你的看法。30岁出头退休，下半辈子每年花2.5万美元的预算是一个灾难。生活发生了变化。一个简单的紧急情况，比如汽车修理或者如果你有一个家，一个简单的修理工作，你已经花费了你年度预算的10%。至少，我建议你把日常紧急情况作为预算的一部分。你不需要为黑天鹅做必要的计划，但是阴天可能是个好主意。尤其是当你意识到大多数人在40岁和30岁时是多么的不同时。
亚博app下载ios像这样的评论根本不明白。30万美元对沿海地区的人来说是中产阶级。这是为了能够养家糊口，而不必考虑简单的经济决定，“今晚我能负担得起外卖吗，因为我晚上8点才出来，太累了，不能做饭？”
Sam is one of the financial blogs who is actually realistic about what it’s like to live in San Francisco and New York. Sure a lot of people can be middle class in these areas with an income of $100K-$200K, but I know that I’d have a lot more sacrifices for someone making that much than someone who lives in the midwest making $100K or even less. To be fair, I’ve lived in the midwest and now in San Francisco.
A lot of these arguments come down to lifestyle or lifestyle creep (which I too am guilty for). I would like to add a different take – there is no way inflation is 3% unless you’re making it that way.
我选择买东西更贵s not inflation – if so, then stocks would count as they inflate at 7-8%\yr. Only having to buy something that costs more is inflation; therefore it is highly variable and individualized.
As an example, someone will point out that gasoline is much more expensive than in 1980, 1.00 vs. 2.50/gallon today. But that’s only 2.25% inflation. Moreover, choosing a fuel efficient OLDER vehicle can save more on gasoline since it will get better gas mileage than most “cars” do today. Yes, I mean heavy big trucks. The point is simple if apples are expensive today, buy pears. Apples will be cheaper again tomorrow.
但这并没有发生，我们知道原因。这很好——自私也是一种动机——但我们不应该用虚数来说COL太高了，因为它在我们的预算中是一个非常可控的数字，而且这个数字更多地是由我们的需求驱动的，而不是我们的需要。
Hi Sam,
我的看法是，有可能实现节俭和投资节省下来的钱（从积极的收入）提前退休。我认为，这样做需要决心和信念。我就是这样一个例子。我没有高薪工作，专注于股息增长投资作为提前退休的催化剂。我保持生活方式费用不变，而且很低。我的需求是最小的，我很容易满足于简单的生活方式。我相信这是一个人所渴望的生活方式。有些人可能想要高成本的生活方式，这种愿望没有错。这取决于一个人的愿望。
WTK公司
在近60我没有欲望或“想”了and I realize the Big Scam of our society. You are programmed to want and need everything on television. Most of which are scams or overpriced junk. The standard is set there, by which you must live. The more power big biz has the more they can ram it down your throat through commercials. Just a few key people pushed down the hill and the rest will follow along jolly-like because they need to be a part for the sake of acceptance. Imagine a large company which manufactured post-modern pogo sticks gained a foothold on the market… In a few years every business would have to, by law, supply its workers with special lockers to house them at work. More money! And for what? To accept the new norm. Oh, but they pogo sticks are “smart” and have do-dads built into them…
我父母从不随身携带电话。今天每个人都这么做是因为每个傻瓜的钱都被榨干了。移动电话是不必要的，但空调教会了你其他。再加上现代社会所有其他所谓的便利设施，你就破产了！
Again, nothing matters to me. The food going down my throat can be anything but cheap generics are no different to me than the finest grade ristorante servings. An old car gets me places just as well as a new state-of-the-art luxury SUV. 1 acre of property suits me just as fine as 10 acres of property. Why bother spending so much for the same end results? The answer is that Consumerism wants you to. They want to financially enslave you.
乔·布鲁说，美容包括发胶、理发、牙膏、除臭剂、粉刺膏、漱口水、牙线、古龙水、肥皂、沐浴露等任何与卫生有关的东西。
Much of that is bull, too, thrust upon us by advertising. A few dollars at Dollar Tree goes a long way. Simple soap and water takes care of pimples as effectively as a magical name brand cream. A bar of soap takes the place of body wash, fancy gels, cologne, and even deodorant. Years from now you’ll no doubt discover that your favorite cream or jell causes cancer via the chemical soup of additives. Keep it simple and you save money and won’t even have second thoughts about it again after a year’s passage. I used to use deodorant constantly when I was young and rashes and infections began to develop in my arm pits, so convinced I was that I needed this product to hide my stanch. Switching to soap and water, I saved money and my body odor was but an illusion all the time. And at my age, my hair grows slowly and a single annual haircut will normally suffice.
My Mobile phone adds value to my life. I don’t own it out of necessity.
I think you need a mobile phone, especially for travel. Many companies pay for them. Frugaleer lives in a different world. A world where soap takes the place of deodorant
Frugaleer, hmmm, I have no words.
“我父母从来不随身携带手机。今天每个人都这么做是因为每个傻瓜的钱都被榨干了。手机是不必要的，但空调教会了你另外一个道理。”
I’ll bet your parents paid for newspaper and magazine subscriptions. I’ll bet your parents bought a book of stamps every single week to pay bills and send letters to friends and loved ones (not to mention paper/stationary and envelopes). These menial things have been replaced by phones connected to the internet. I’ll bet your parents had to take valuable time out of their day to head to the library whenever they needed to research something – or to a bookstore to pay for a book. I’ll bet your parents had a set of encyclopedias (those weren’t cheap!). I’ll bet your parents had to take their automobiles to a repair shop, or call a handyman for moderately challenging household fixes – now they could just watch a 3-minute video tutorial on YouTube and do it themselves. Oh – and the parts or tools they need? They wouldn’t need to travel to the next town to find the auto parts store or hardware store that carries the specific part they need – just order it on Amazon and it arrives in 2 days!
Here’s a good one… I’ll bet your parents purchased a camera (maybe one of the good expensive ones), but they didn’t carry it around with them all the time – only when they knew they might want to capture some memories. But before they could use it – they had to buy film! And then, IF they wanted to see those pictures – they had to pay to get the film developed. Again, not cheap – and you had to wait several days for your pictures to come in. Or… you could pay a premium for ‘same day’ development.
So, despite the perceived high cost of smart phones – they really are saving us money in the long run – if you think about it. And there is SO much more that they do that I didn’t even mention above! Countless apps make life easier by saving us time and money. And that saved time can be spent increasing earnings/income!
Outstanding argument here, Matthew! I agree with John a few comments up that my mobile smart phone adds value to my live but when put into words with specifics such as you’ve done, it makes me appreciate it all the more!
Hmm, I wonder if the avatar with a single tooth and unibrow is a result of having written “live” rather than “life?”
200% FPL is nowhere near poverty; it’s double the income of the highest-income-people-in-poverty, in (one of?) the richest country (ies) in the world. My own personal spending has only exceeded 200% FPL once in the last decade, in the year I bought a house and did some remodeling. Usually I’ve been around 150% FPL for a pretty comfy “college student living the good life” lifestyle. When none of the income is going towards debt or tuition, it goes a long way.
It does seem you’re a bit out of touch with how inexpensive life between the coasts can be. In my small Midwest city, $650/month in rent nets you a fairly large 1br apartment in the nice part of town. The slummiest apartments are around $450 for 1br, and the top of the line waterfront 1br luxury apartment might go for $900 or $1000. No roommates needed, and in none of those areas are people treating the streets outside like a toilet, as some San Francisco residents might.
我同意节俭和不需要豪华的200%+FPL并不是避免努力工作以赚取更多收入的好理由。60%或75%的储蓄率比5%的储蓄率更有利于积累财富。但是有了这些额外的收入并不能使消费更加令人满意，而且在一个平均生活成本为200%的地区，单身汉没有多少幸福可以买。
Sounds great. Why do you think the government gives so much subsidies for people who earn 200% of FPL?
你能和我们分享一下你的家庭规模吗？这样我们就可以了解你是如何达到你的财务目标的？你认为你什么时候能退休？你认为你需要多少钱？
谢谢
有很多人在200%的FPL，他们可以投票？另外，任何赚得更多的人都不会因为比他们更穷的人得到补贴而感到难过，因为这基本上是他们获得某种补贴的先决条件。补贴那些收入水平的人也是一个很容易的政治推销，因为大多数人赚得更多，几乎花掉了所有的钱，而且无法想象他们的支出会比目前的支出少……所以那些低收入的人，比如那些FPL或低于200%的人，很容易得到同情。尤其是当税单是由比你更富有的人支付的时候。
For me: household size of 1, expenses typically under $20,000/year, with a base salary that has ranged from $40,000 to $85,000 since graduating from college (during college I worked enough to earn ~$20,000 / year). It’s pretty easy to get the finances right with that kind of income as a single person if you drive a modest car and don’t go overboard on housing costs or vices (e.g. drinking, gambling).
在我32岁的时候，我可以预见在未来几年内，我将开始过一种清淡的生活方式，拥有一套已付清的房子和大约50万美元的投资资产。现在我预计今年要花18000美元，但其中7000美元是抵押贷款。因此，一旦抵押贷款取消，即使我支付了100%的医疗保险费，我每年的支出也将远远低于2万美元（如果政府继续鼓励人们通过平价医疗法案降低收入，我可能就不用这么做了）。这就为更大的非经常性开支留下了一个相当大的缓冲区（例如，新屋顶、炉子、不可预测的医疗问题，需要我支付一年的最高自付费用等等）。
但是，我可能会工作更长一点，以积累更多的储蓄，并弄清楚我想用我的生活做些什么，而不是在32岁时拔掉插头。如果我现在离开这份工作，我真的不知道我会用这些空闲时间做什么。不管是2年，5年，还是10年，我可能会做一些能挣点钱的爱好。
在某种程度上，我也同意你早些时候所说的，当你进入收入高峰期时就过早退休；我已经接近了我能得到的最高级的职位，而没有进入管理层的轨道，所以在我这么容易挣这么多钱的时候停止工作有点傻。不过，我真的不想一直磨蹭到40岁。在我的投资账户中积累的额外资金的边际效用已经开始消退，因此仅仅为了在电脑屏幕上显示更大的数字而再工作十年似乎不是很有吸引力。
很酷。我很高兴你打算在退休前付清房款。
Is your plan to be single for the foreseeable future and in retirement?
如果你只需要照顾自己，生活是相当廉价的。
是啊，单身是可以预见的未来的计划。它确实保持了相当低的成本。
But if I weren’t planning on being single, it’s not unreasonable to expect a modern strong and independent woman to be able to finance her own lifestyle, right? It is 2019 after all. Young, single, childless women are more educated and earning more than their male counterparts last I heard.
火的运动中的一个问题是，有时我们会固守某种生活方式，却看不到未来的变化。假设一个人的节俭是另一个人的富有，一个人的富有是另一个人的节俭，长期来看，你会遇到一个奇妙的点，导致通货膨胀，每20-30年你的购买力就会减少近一半。你很容易认为你现在处于一个好的位置，并且可以维持一辈子。家庭变化、住房需求（除非你拥有自己的房子，否则你不能保证你的房子终身可用）、搬家费用、生活方式的改变，所有这些都会慢慢改变时间。如果你扣动扳机提前退休，你会发现自己处于困境，无法维持你的生活方式。再加上医疗保健和无法提前预测50年后我们将生活在一个什么样的世界这一事实，我将采取更为保守的方法。
从你的帖子中学到很多。泰❤️❤️❤️
嘿，山姆，
你的职位激励我走出去奔波——意识到我的主要工作不会为我提供我想要的那种长期的经济保障。
我今年25岁，目前住在旧金山。在读了你的文章后，我意识到我需要找到灵活的方法来赚取更多的钱，现在用task rabbit带来了保守的600美元/月。目前来说这很好，但我真正的目标是，一旦我觉得财务上更有保障，就创办一家公司——我预计这至少需要一到两年的时间。
My question is – do you have any other recommendations to supercharge my income?
加班。
很好的工作，赚取一个通过任务兔侧急忙！我想尝试在网上做一些自由职业者的工作。在线工作是最灵活的工作类型。你可以在世界上任何地方做这件事，而且对具备网络技能的人的需求也在不断增长。
我也会专注于尽快建立一个被动的收入组合。你每投资1000美元，一年就赚20到40美元。
Much appreciated – I’ll keep at the online work, I’ve been on upwork but haven’t landed anything yet (it’s only been a month).
Regarding passive income I currently invest my emergency fund in a municipal income fund (FHIGX) and have an after tax robo-advisor account that’s heavily tilted towards stocks – with all dividends and capital gains being reinvested. I’m dealing with low capital at the moment but I’m really trying to develop the right habits right now.
真的很感谢你回复我原来的帖子-我喜欢这个博客，每周都读。
你免费和父母住在一起吗？旧金山是租金最高的城市之一。你一年税后至少赚30万吗？如果是的话，你的中下层阶级。搬到一个更便宜的城市投资你收入的75%，包括你节省的房租。吃紧节俭自律。祝你好运
Also my gross income is $35k, and with a good income portfolio you can live off the interest and never draw down the principle. So I could have say $2 million and live off $80k a year interest. With a more reasonable total return of 10%, I can get there in 20ish years. Everyone seems to assume that retirement portfolios are intended to be wiped out over the course of one’s life and then one should die penniless. Why?
此外，股息贵族的历史回报率实际上是11.8%的复合年增长率。
我认为人们有疑问的是，你可以建立一个200万美元的投资组合，每年只有35000美元的收入。但我希望你能获得这样的复合回报率。
你现在的投资组合有多大？
Currently, I’m at $42,000. With this future value calculator, I see $1.9 million in 20 years. This assumes
PV- 42000
N-520（20年，当我收到股息时，每隔一周复利一次）
利率10%（除以一年26期）
Periodic deposit 958 (This is higher than the current contribution amount because I’m adjusting for future raises)
https://www.calculator.net/future-value-calculator.html?ctype=endamount&cyearsv=520&cstartingprinciplev=42000&cinterestratev=.3846&ccontributeamountv=958&ciadditionat1=beginning&printit=0&x=63&y=25
乔，作为一个年轻人，我喜欢你已经在考虑退休和节俭了。有了这种存钱的态度，你会比大多数人做得更好。然而，你的假设过于乐观。
1. “compounding every other week when I receive dividend payments”
– You can’t compound every 2 weeks. Dividends get paid out quarterly.
2. “Interest rate 10%”
– Over the next 20 years, global GDP is expected to slow down and the US should average a 1.6% annualized growth rate. Stock analysts expect US equities to produce annual returns of 4-5%.
三。“定期存款958”
–这相当于每年2.5万美元，如果你现在每年只赚3.5万美元，那么你的收入可能需要10年才能达到每年2.5万美元的水平。我会重新计算，1-5年有5000美元的存款，6-10年有1.5万美元的存款，等等。随着年龄的增长，你的收入会增加，但你的支出也会增加。由于一家四口住在硅谷，我现在的开销是每月1万美元，但我每年仍能节省25万美元以上。
4. Taxes
– Nobody ever talks about the taxes they’ll owe on the dividends and capital gains. Taxes will take a big chunk out of your rate of return.
I don’t know what you do for a living, but the most realistic way to get to $2M is to increase your income by being a great salesperson, business owner, or work at one of the big tech companies. Joe, I wish you the best of luck.
1-Dividends pay out whenever you want them to, if you set up your portfolio that way. Some pay Jan, April, July, October 1, some pay on the 15th of the same months, same with other months. 11-12 stocks with different payment dates, and you can get biweekly compounding. Also, money goes in from my check as well, which helps it compound.
2 -在未来20年,投资“专家”will be just as wrong as they ever were, and even if they are right it won’t matter, because I don’t invest in the broad market. As I said, dividend champions have a historical CAGR of 11.8%, compared to 7.48% for the S&P 500. A bet on the largest, best run businesses in America is a bet on American exceptionalism.
3. I’m putting in about $23k a year now. I figured an average of 25k going in over however long as I get raises is reasonable.
4. Taxes on capital gains are 0% up to $38,000 and 10% on the amount from 38-200k. So I’m not too worried about that. Taxes will be negligible compared to what a working stiff pays.
我很想增加我的工资，但我真的看不到，我什么都试过了
1. It’s not biweekly compounding if only 1/12th of your stock portfolio is paying a dividend each month. If you invested 100% into one stock that pays a dividend every 2 weeks, then you’d have biweekly compounding.
2我想20年后我们会看到的。我希望市场回报率保持高位。
3. If you’re making $35K/year, paying taxes, and spending $15K/year…I don’t know how you’re able to contribute $23K/year unless you’re getting gifts.
4. The taxable income range includes your capital gains. Also, some types of dividends are taxed at the lower long-term capital gains rate (0%, 15%). Some types of dividends are taxed at your higher ordinary income rate (22%+). Also, there are state taxes. In CA, dividend income is taxed at your ordinary rate.
5要增加收入，请查看以下帖子：
https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/亚博app下载ioscomments/bxa3qz/guide\u新读者\u概率\u收入/
Spot on Sam. Life in one’s 20s as a single person is very different from 30z, 40s, 50s etc with a spouse and/or kids to care for. Our lifestyle needs and desires can change a lot over time and it can be hard to visualize or anticipate how much of a financial and lifestyle impact that can make. Lots of food for thought in this post. Thanks!
回应你的观点
1这真是个不错的地方。随着年龄的增长，我会从投资中得到很多钱。这就是提前退休的想法。我将有大约200万美元，这将启动8万美元的股息一年（今天的美元）。所以，如果我想开车去大城市，或者做一些新奇的事情，或者环游世界，我可以。我只需要20年的点滴投资就能达到我的目标。假设我没有其他意外之财，比如遗产。
2. My parents are loaded. If they get sick they can hair their own team of doctors and nurses they will be fine. I’m MGTOW. I will never have any leeches in my life.
三。哦，是的，我可以。我投资了我总收入的55%。我的身价已经超过4万美元了，如果按10%的回报率计算，20年后我将拥有200万美元。我现在一定很开心。我喜欢玩电子游戏和喝酒，这两者都是廉价的习惯。
Great to hear that you will have $2 million in 20 years.
Could you suggest some specific topics that I should write about to help people like you who will be multimillionaires?
顺便问一下，你的父母被加载与你的情况有什么关系？谢谢
Most people who make 35 k will never even have $5k in their bank account. The reason is people blow their money on stupid $h!t. This holds true for all income groups, in general. This is why I think a few posts on frugality/minimalism would benefit your community.
请允许我举一个例子：有35000美元的收入，如果你买一辆50000美元的卡车，300000美元的房子，4000美元的电视等等，并且对所有这些都有支付计划，你将永远不会获得任何财富。
So since most people blow their money, they are never able to invest any, and thus can never build wealth.
如果你想让我写一篇关于如何实现FI的帖子，我很乐意。但我不知道怎么把图表等放到课文里。如果你愿意，我可以给你发电子邮件。
Parents- you mentioned that one might need to help ones parents, financially speaking, in their old age. I am just saying that will never be a problem for me because my parents are so loaded they can have anything they want and even if they were old and sick they’d never run out of money, so I need not concern myself with being able to help them. (they have over $10 million in assets)
You come across as a narcissistic know-it-all FYI
嗯，好吗？只是在这里宣扬真相伙计。他问为什么人们从不积累财富，我说这是因为他们把钱花在愚蠢的东西上（消费主义）。我的房东有14万美元的收入，而且总是身无分文。
Just to burst your bubble a bit (you’re generally on the right track!)
– $2,000,000 probably isn’t going to kick off $80,000 in dividends. The S&P 500 is closer to 2% than 4%.
–考虑到目前的估值，你可能不会看到10%的回报。在我的预测电子表格中，我输入了4%（如果对提前退休的人来说足够好的话，在积累的时候应该足够好），我认为Vanguard和其他公司在未来几年的预测回报率接近5%，可能在通货膨胀之前。但谁知道呢？
– It’s easier to shoot for the big returns when you don’t have as much to lose. I’m getting close to having half a million saved up, and I’m glad it’s split between stocks and bonds and house equity, because I’d hate to lose $250,000 at this point in time if the market were to crash.
马克-你说的标准普尔500指数是2%是对的。不过，我不打算在这方面投资。我投资的是精心挑选的天鹅蓝筹股股息投资组合，目前开盘价为4.8%，应该会保持在那里。如果退休后不这样做，我可能会把其中的一部分转移到垃圾债券上。
As for 5% return, you’re correct- with regards to the broad market. The dividend aristocrats index has a CAGR of 11.8% in the last 100 years, and 11.7% in the last 20. Vanguard projected 6-7% returns so since SWANS run about 2-2.5 ahead of the market I expect to get 9.5-10%.
I understand where you’re coming from by being cautious about a possible market crash. But for me, it wouldn’t matter since I’m 23. It would allow me to get a better price on the stocks I want. I may rebalance in the future depending how things look. The way I see it, I don’t lose money unless I sell for less than I paid. I buy for yield and yield growth. DRIP is the secret to riches.
Thanks for your insight!
我想有首歌叫做，年轻，愚蠢，破产。出于某种原因，年轻人认为他们知道的比他们真正知道的要多。我不知道是固执，还是愚蠢，还是幼稚，但有一个原因，不管你怎么教育年轻人，他们都得自己想办法。
我不确定你能对乔或其他同龄的人说些什么，让他们有不同的想法。他们有自己的生活经验，犯自己的错误，然后进化。
让我们不要低估乔是领先的曲线相比，大多数20多岁，因为他实际上是考虑他的财务长期。也许是自信和天真，但比一般人更有洞察力和准备。
非常正确。人们越早开始考虑他们的个人财务状况，他们的个人财务状况就越强劲。
What part of my post is stubborn or stupid? I live cheaper than most people do, and therefore don’t have to work as hard or as long. I also have fewer problems to worry about. Why so angry? Are you envious?
你的态度可能有助于降低成本。我不认为有人会想和你在一起，或者以你那种无所不知的态度和你在一起。
Not only are you delusional with how much money you think you’re going to have in the future, you’re also very arrogant. And if you can’t see that, then you’re just gonna have to learn through experience.
My point is 85%of Americans make less than $80k, and 50%make less than $34k. Your advice is not useful to the vast majority of people.
What about the more than 50% of people who make over 200% of FPL? Surely what I write has some relevancy?
What type of articles should I write to help those making under $25K-$34K that are different from what I write now?
Related://www.918taoke.com/rich-sported-cluless-work-minimum-wage-job-至少两次/
我欢迎你们尽可能多的详细反馈，因为我想在未来几年里在观众中规划得更好。
从你的角度写一篇关于如何帮助你处境中的人的客座文章也很好。让社区参与分享他们的故事，这绝对是我的目标之一。
我不认为我的读者是平均水平或低于平均水平。我们的人生只有一次机会，所以我们不妨争取更多。
Related://www.918taoke.com/better-life-be-the-one-percent-in-something/
One of the biggest disconnects about the FIRE movement to me is all the 20 and 30 something people blogging about FIRE who are using their blog to find their RE.
为了做到这一点，他们必须说服一大群人相信RE是下一个铜环，他们应该使用这个工具或服务来获得RE（或者创建自己的博客！）。
Someone more cynical than me might say that FIRE is just a huge pyramid scheme to fund lifestyle businesses – from MMM on down the line. But I’d never say such a thing.
乔，
为什么你想成为所有人的一切？为什么你会忽视90%以上的人，他们并不生活在贫困之中或接近贫困？
最容易陷入困境的人是那些不向以前的人学习的人。没有必要重新发明轮子。
Why are you here if Sam’s advice is irrelevant to you?
I’m not talking about people who live in poverty. I’m talking about the lower middle class to middle class. I think lessons on frugality would help a lot of the readers. Statistically, most of us make under $80k.
也许吧，但现在已经有很多网站专注于节省开支。比如说钱胡子先生。山姆的网站是少数几个不支持每个人靠“退休”生活一年不超过24k的网站之一
如果你注意的话，你会发现我靠每年8万美元生活，这是一个非常舒适的退休生活。仅仅因为我的工资低并不意味着我退休后的收入就低。
通货膨胀现在已经平缓了，但我怀疑20年后，8万英镑的退休收入不会像你想象的那样丰厚。
200%的FPL会让你比全世界数百万人过得更好？？
尝试60亿，几乎是整个人口。没有理由呆在HCOL地区，而试图节俭的火灾，从而使自己陷入赤贫。
要得到10亿，你必须先通过100万。
我认为你可以通过“节俭”的方式获得FI，但这是一条漫长的道路，需要遵守纪律——尤其是当你忍受来自所谓朋友和家人的不断批评时。
我和我的妻子是丁克族(但计划改变oon with a baby perhaps in 2020), both age 36, and live within the metro of a major coastal city. Our net worth is $2.5mm. We earn $580,000/yr together (including a few passive investments) and have consistently saved roughly 85% of our after-tax income for the past several years. We live in a house that is TOO BIG for two people (or even three after a baby comes) and we travel constantly and dine out regularly with friends at nicer restaurants. I haven’t been to an Applebee’s since college. We can easily cut down our budget by pulling on these three levers but haven’t done so because we believe we are still relatively frugal. Are we? However, we sometimes see our expenses creeping up and have to remind each other to get back in check. It’s a constant struggle between wanting to enjoy things and also be mindful of our long-term goals.
以下是我们每月的平均预算：
Public transit to work for 2 people $1,050 (very expensive given our location)
医学/牙科/视力130美元（我们中的一个人通过工作可以免费获得一切）
No Mortgage (paid off 4 years ago)
房产税和保险980美元（对我们地区来说很便宜）
公用设施/电视/互联网750美元（昂贵的b/c家庭规模较大）
No mobile phone bills (both employer-paid)
No subscription services, e.g., Netflix or Hulu
学生贷款207美元
Car lease $200 (modest economy full-efficient car)
Car insurance for 2 cars (one is owned) $150
假期1700美元（这对我们来说是一个很大的放纵；每年1-2次国际旅行）
杂项$1500（主要用于举办晚宴和外出就餐，例如omakase）
总计6667美元
We are saving about $30,500 per month (including all pre-tax retirement plans).
尽管我们计划将家庭规模扩大一到两个，但我们仍在强烈考虑搬到一个较小的空间，例如在一个评价很高的学区的联排别墅。我们只是家里的维修太多了。它既昂贵又不令人愉快。
我妻子和我从家人和朋友那里得到了很多废话，比如“住一点”、“租一辆宝马”或者“在你院子里的地下游泳池里放一个75000美元”。这些人要么没有钱，要么更多的时候从父母那里得到了他们所有的东西。我们俩都没有这么幸运。我们有0美元。我们并不期待如果我们缩小到一个联排别墅，我们将不可避免地遭受批评。我们知道我们需要做对我们和我们的目标最有利的事情，但是当我们朝着我们的长期目标努力的时候，处理别人和他们的意见仍然很烦人。
喜欢积极的储蓄！我想知道…也许你们从家人和朋友那里得到了“很多废话”，因为你们需要more Stealth Wealth? If they didn’t have any idea how much you guys earned, why would they encourage you to spend $75,000 for a pool?
Also, you guys clearly have your finances together, so money isn’t a worry. But if you want to start a family, I encourage you NOT to wait until she is 37 to start trying. There is no right time. But since you already know you want children, then you might as well start now.
Biology may not cooperate, which we found out for several years. I wish folks told me when I was younger more about the joy, pain, and realities of parenthood.
Related:最佳生育年龄
Thanks, Sam. The problem with stealth wealth is that we both work in industries that are commonly associated with high incomes and are also widely publicized on blogs and in the media. We very recently decided to pull the trigger on a baby so we are on it! We are hoping it all goes smoothly but I will say that waiting did help us alot financially and with us moving along in our careers without a baby competing for our time while our careers were still new and vulnerable.
Keep it up!
When it comes to advice or critiques from friends and family – best to smile, nod your head, and then ignore them. They don’t know your financial goals, so no point in listening to them.
Also, best to maintain a level of stealth wealth. If they don’t know you have money, they won’t make comments to encourage you to spend.
With stealth wealth: next time they ask you to put in a pool, you can say it would be so nice to do so but I don’t have the money, can you lend me some money for the work? This should put an end to that comment going forward.
“…你能借给我一些钱做这项工作吗？”
我喜欢！
哦，那游泳池的维护费用呢？？？以及相关的更高的水电费来运行水泵和加热游泳池？？？
我没有继承一分钱(事实上我帮助我mom financially) while we were told we were rich but that was not true. We never got help, did everything on our own but we have a neighbor who inherited over 10 acres of property, built a beautiful house on it with help his parents sold it to us, then they built another big house, again with big money help of his parents. The neighbors husband makes about about $250k a year and drives the company car. They are always making less than nice comments about people who get gov’t help (but ignore the help they get from parents) but I get that too. We started from $60k yr and for a 10 yr period we made around $400k yr but that has changed. Thankfully we were pretty frugal when I made good money.
I see both sides. Everyone has different circumstances sometimes not any fault of their own (like my having to help my mom or his dad financially) Everyone has a different perspective and since circumstances change, perspective change.
今天的问题是，每个人都看到一个数字，并认为他们可以判断形势。
Beth, thanks for your comment. It’s frustrating though. I had over 200k of student loans when I got out of school. Through frugality, I paid them off in full within 4 years of starting my first job. Everyone tells me that was impossible so I must have had “help.” I can assure you I did not. Then I bought a home and paid off a 600k mortgage in full. Everyone said I must have had “help.” This is a small crowd bc I don’t advertise these two things. It is still frustrating. People wonder why they can’t do the same while eating $20 avocado toast and a $6 latte and then driving home in their $800 per month leased car and wearing a Michele watch and Prada bag and Tori Burch shoes.
是这样的。你有很多学生的债务，但人们没有考虑到这一点，当他们看收入。我上大学的时候，我的室友有一份最低工资的工作。我们同意每人付帐单的50%。她所做的就是出去聚会。毕业后，我确实欠了学生债（虽然没有你那么多），但当我找到一份薪水相当不错的工作时，我的室友说：“既然你有一份更好的工作，你应该付更高比例的账单。我当然说了不。我应该说的是肯定的，如果你帮我还学生贷款的话。
是的，令人沮丧的是，人们不使用他们的头脑，看到完整的情况。他们只看到他们想要的。人们不想做馅饼，但当馅饼做好后，他们想分一杯羹。
Congrats on paying down all that debt! When I was making good money instead of increasing my SOL. like you I paid off debt, contributed full amount to a 401k and after tax investment account so I have more control how I draw out of my 401k.
First time comment here. From an entirely different country but people are more or less the same everywhere. My question is: Why do you need to convince people that you had no help paying your college debt or cancelling your mortgage? It’s none of their business. Why do you get frustrated about it?
Totally agree with you Sam, I lived it.
1995年我22岁那年来到硅谷。我住在圣克拉拉的一个垃圾区，和两个室友每月付400美元的房租。那一年我赚了4.8万美元，真是太棒了。我们在圣何塞聚会，参加鲨鱼比赛，在家里玩得很开心。我的开销和乔的差不多。
But life happens. I got a girlfriend. I moved. I always lived below my means but I also always focused on improving my means.
现在我46岁了，已婚，有房子和孩子，我无法想象像22岁那样生活，尽管我有美好的回忆。
I did learn an appreciation of “enough” along the way. FIRE (or FatFIRE as most would see my situation) has given me a huge sense of empowerment. It’s a great way to shape your life. But at 23, don’t think it’s all going to be the same later on, you’re kidding yourself!
关注收入，量入为出，思考你所看重的，并在上面自由消费。这样做，你面前的机会只会越来越多。
The amount needed for FIRE only works when a lifestyle is set that you are happy about for the next 40 years.
我相信很多时候，人们追求火只看他们目前的生活方式（比如说在20多岁中后期）和基础支出的生活方式。如果一个人从未打算成家或生孩子，那也没关系。
我相信在婚后和为孩子着想之后，想出一个火灾数字可能更合适。这可能是在30多岁到30多岁之间。然后你就有了你真正的消防号码。
然后，争取在未来15到20年内实现这一目标，并在40到50岁之间成为FI。
我懂得节俭的生活方式。我不懂火的运动。
对我来说，现在生活在近乎贫困的环境中，这样我以后才能生活在近乎贫困的环境中，这真的没有意义。当我15岁的时候，我想住在树林里，靠我的智慧和技能生存下来。现在我已经长大了，我仍然想依靠自己的智慧和技能生活，但是住在山洞里（或者住在一个边缘社区里一个勉强可以接受的居所）就不是那么吸引人了。
我会继续从事我喜欢的工作，实行理智的消费主义。
It’s more along the lines of “live without a few luxuries now so you can live like a king in retirement”. You underestimate the power of compounding interest. Just a few hundred a month saved now adds up to millions over 30-40 years
Valid points about costs going up with family and age. Also, Joe is in a powerful position by setting his needs modestly early on and saving aggressively. I would offer that earning more and being frugal with your needs may roughly be equally powerful in getting to FI depending on circumstances. Sometimes high earners are rich and lower earners are sitting on a pile of cash through modest expenses and the miracle of compounding in investments.
挣一大笔钱当然有帮助，但我现在的生活环境不适合我这样做。不细说，我的工作机会有限。
你可以用两个词来概括——生活会发生。我们中没有一个人有水晶球，所以我们不能假设退休后我们会确切地知道我们计划如何生活，或者具体的开支是什么（尽管我们仍然应该尽可能多地计划）。
And chances are you’ll want to live it up a bit more and splurge once you retire, simply because you’ve worked hard to get there. I’ve read many articles where people retired early and wished they worked just a couple of more years to boost their financial health; maybe they retired a little too early and didn’t estimate well enough, didn’t take inflation into account, etc.
当你住在旧金山时，把贫困地区和犯罪联系起来，我觉得很有趣。洛杉矶也一样，百万美元的房子坐落在帮派社区，你每晚都能听到枪声。
You are correct with there being more “free activities” (like parks) in wealthier cities but many of those parks are taken over by gangs and the homeless.
One of the more shocking things was finding out a couple hundred dollars in rent was the difference between a low crime affluent area and a crime ridden gang neighborhood.
I think the mass media has really hyped up the heavy crime in one neighborhood (Tenderloin/Civic Center) in SF and made people think like it is city-wide. There’s definitely crime all around, but not to the extent that media makes it out to be.
Related:
The Best Area To Buy Property In SF Today
世界上最便宜的国际城市：旧金山
我不得不承认，当我看到苹果蜜蜂被用来作为金钱可以买到的乐趣的例子时，我笑了出来，然后我发现自己是不必要的势利。
在大学期间，AB曾经是我最喜欢在周五晚上或周末去的地方之一。AB的氛围很好地融合了乐趣和风格，我喜欢他们大多数食物的味道。它的价格也很公道，所以当开胃菜、主菜和饮料的价格达到20-30美元左右时，我就有理由说，在一家金融公司兼职时，花掉我每小时2-3美元挣来的钱绝对值得。
但我已经有10多年没回AB了，甚至15年没回了，因为我的味蕾变了。我以前在AB品尝过的东西现在尝起来就像一个涂满枫糖浆的油纸盒子。
不过，我知道我只是在开玩笑，因为我仍然时不时地吃麦当劳。哈哈。我也非常喜欢它，所以即使我可能会表现得像AB是我不再喜欢的东西，我知道我会喜欢它，如果我把我的优越感放在一边。事实上，也许我应该明天带我的家人去：）
我是说我明白了。我们都应该努力提高我们的生活质量，最大限度地提高我们的效率，帮助他人，提供家庭，为我们的孩子节省教育，把我们的时间和金钱捐给重要的地方，尽我们所能地节省，使复利为我们工作，但最好的做法是坐下来重新评估你的立场什么都有。提醒自己你从哪里来，你曾经珍惜的东西。那时对你重要的事情现在对你不再重要了。为什么会变？应该改变吗？
I know our taste buds gets refined the more we try the finer things. I know we “can’t go back” once we try something that’s better, but we can also chalk off this mentality as being weak.
Honestly, when I see the FPL levels and it’s humbling to know that so many people can live fulfilling lives with incomes at or below the thresholds. I’m fortunate and extremely lucky to be in a position where I’m worrying about investment allocation and not thinking twice about where I spend my fun money as long as it’s within reason, but this post reminded me to pause, reevaluate, and to appreciate even the smallest things in life. So thank you Sam for this post and Joe, for keeping it real.
I used to love Denny’s and Outback steakhouse too! Alas, tastes change over time.
当我们的品味变得更加昂贵，但我们的财富却因为任何原因而没有增长时，事情就会变得糟糕。然后我们开始变得忧郁或愤怒，然后一场革命发生了。
我们的需要必须与我们的行动一致。
It’s referred to as champagne tastes on a beer budget.
The town we live in doesn’t allow fast food restaurants at all (think there is one Subways, but it is nowhere nearby). So we eat in a lot, not because of cost, because of calories and because we like to know what is going in to what we are eating.
有奢侈品没关系，但我真的不喜欢。我不会去一家你付100美元一盘的餐馆，即使我买得起。为什么？在许多情况下，奢侈品不值得额外的钱。当一辆价值2万美元的丰田做同样的工作时，我应该买一辆价值8万美元的宝马吗？
I.e. it’s not worth paying 100% more for a product that’s only 5% better.
Can I enjoy luxuries? Sure, a few. Can I enjoy them in retirement? Sure, as many as I want. But they don’t really mean anything to me. That BMW wouldn’t be any more fun for me than a regular car, because I couldn’t let we rip since I’d be stuck behind slowpokes on the highway all the time.
That’s the big problem with the FIRE movement. Young people can live pretty frugally. But it’s not a good idea to set your FI target to your current expense. Most of us will spend more as we get older. We want more comfort and some nicer things in life. Being frugal is much more palatable when it’s a choice and not the only option.
300%FPL是一个很好的目标。我们花了大约250%的FPL，但可能需要产生300%的FPL来支付我妻子退休后的税收和医疗保健。
人们往往对退休后的医疗费用有一种非理性的恐惧。我经常看到一些人甚至拒绝量化费用，这使得预算是不可能的！
平均而言，我看到的市场计划中，四口之家的保费约为1200美元/月，自掏腰包的最高限额为10000美元。因此，在最坏的情况下，一个家庭每年必须为24400美元的医疗保健费用做预算。当然，这是一个很大的数字。但是，至少是一个数字！
At a 3% withdrawal rate, about $850,000 of assets will cover healthcare expenses for this family. For people shooting to retire with $3,000,000 (ie, 2 401K millionaires!) this seems to be attainable. That means this couple can live on $65,000 a year plus have healthcare covered!
当然，我们不知道医疗保健未来会发生什么。但是，我无法想象保费在工资中所占的比例会继续上升。在我看来，如果这种情况发生，美国将不得不对医疗体系进行彻底改革。
Remember, the US has always done the right thing — but not before exhausting all other options first.
好的一点是，至少有一个数字可以用来计算潜在的更糟糕的医疗状况。但哎哟，24400美元真是个大麻烦。
$65,000 a year for two is absolutely great for a couple in retirement. That’s almost at the top of 400% of FPL. But half that amount, or $32,500 at 200% of FPL is starting to get tight.
一对习惯了年薪10万美元以上的夫妇，是否愿意靠税前年薪3.25万美元过活？我不这么认为。
但一对年收入3.25万美元的夫妇将很难存下100万美元的税后投资组合，以3.25万美元的年收入提前退休。我把这一比例限制在0.1%以下。
A couple earning $35 a year combined needs to get the hell out of McDonalds and get a real job.
我喜欢你。你让这个评论区很有趣。
I hope you come back and read our comments 7-10 years from now.
你对医疗和全家带来了优点ly. These are always the hardest to financially plan for yet the most important. Looking back when I was 23 and where I am now there is a dramatic difference in my priorities. Additional, you brought up aging parents and their well being is yet another expense that is often overlooked in financial planning. In Joes scenario it didn’t look like he is saving anymore. Or at all.
Is he retired or is that his income that he living off of? Is he satisfied with the amount he has already saved ($485,600 – $1,214,000)?
如果你把那笔钱存了23英镑，你一定有可观的收入。如果这是他的收入，那么他的低收入地位很可能会受到自动化的影响。这将使他在未来陷入困境。
谢谢你的来信
我认为，那些极度早退的人（20多岁或30出头）的一个最大的脱节就是他们把三一研究中4%的SWR当作福音。
That study only looked at 30 years and it was a much different economic climate than it is now. Having a 40, 50, or even 60 year retirement is going to put far more stress on that 4% SWR even if the economy does exactly the same during the period the study was conducted (which a lot of experts say returns are going to be lower).
随着你身体年龄的增长，会有更多的健康问题，因此也需要仔细考虑。
补充（因为我半睡半醒）：
打扮：20美元我错过了，因为它正好在中间。
每月？这家伙是不是在买梳子剃须刀理发…？
一把梳子将永存。去美元树买10包一次性剃须刀1美元。我退休后每周刮一次胡子。我一个月用两把剃须刀就可以过得很轻松。
I’m not going to bother with misc. or gas. Depends on how far you live from the stores. Depends on what gas-guzzler you drive. If you need to drive and own one like the rest of the herd.
我也不带电话。做你想做的。
美容包括发胶、理发、牙膏、除臭剂、粉刺膏、漱口水、牙线、古龙水、肥皂、沐浴露等任何与卫生有关的东西。
BS
Starting with “frugal” is a noun not a verb.
如果你有足够的精力生活并享受入不敷出的生活，你可以让这个国家的百万富翁退休。它需要自律。我一生都在做垃圾工作，现在退休了，拥有7位数的净资产。我通过储蓄和投资得到了它。有一种魔法叫做复利。把你的钱放在零散的地方，它会随着时间的推移而增长。不跟挥霍无度的人一起跑，你就能获得成功。拿这个“乔”的每月预算来说，我可以把它削减到一半。看看最后两个：赌博和酗酒？拜托！我一直过着干净的生活。我从免费的当地图书馆得到娱乐，玩老式游戏。不喝酒，不抽烟，不吸毒。72美元的健康费？这是健身房会员的一部分还是相关的？每月1美元的医疗保险。高免赔额。这就是我所需要的，因为我很健康。再过几年，医疗保险就要生效了。事实上，乔可能有资格在我居住的地方享受州救济，这意味着他将享受医疗补助，医疗补助提供几乎所有的服务，包括免费的牙科服务。我现在连这个都没有。食物：150美元？乔需要学会在家里自己做食物，比如时不时地花一分钱做一份蔬菜沙拉。我可以继续。你继续谈论阿普尔比。你在那里吃饭，你应该得到它带来的一切。你可以随意用星巴克或全食代替它。别忘了加上你需要为之生活的大SUV。
The hardest part of frugal living isn’t frugal living. It’s the Discrimination people like me face from so-called affluent people who, in reality, have negative net worths. They’re programmed by Capitalism to drag people down to their level of over-spending and living for the moment. Normalizing waste and consumption.
然后政府偷了我的钱又回到了第一阶段。你应该想要新的，最新的，最好的东西。你是由它来评判的。我今天住的整个小镇都是以外表为基础的。
Congratulations on retiring with a healthy net worth.
I’m frugal too, but not as much as you. Like all things in life I feel like there’s a spectrum. You look at Joe’s monthly budget and can trim it in half. Me, I look at it and think he’s being good enough.
It’s all about moderation. You think he should spend time cooking to save money, but what if he values eating out with friends or families and using that time to also socialize?
You think he shouldn’t drink booze for health reasons, but I drink occasionally and have ZERO health issues. My physical always comes back completely fine and the life insurance premium that I’m paying is as low as it can be. Again, it’s all about moderation and finding a balance that works for you.
I would just count your blessings and not let those fake affluent people bother you. If they look down on you because their neck high in debt, it shows more about who they are as a person. Anyway congrats again on retiring with a 7-figure portfolio. What do you do to keep busy now that you’re retired btw?
你能分享你的年龄、预算和家庭状况吗？
基于你的预算，你会面临什么样的歧视？这会如何影响你的预算和你的感受？
除非你告诉其他人你的预算，我不认为其他人会歧视你收取更多或阻止你的服务等。
P.S. I love using “frugal” as a noun. It sounds neat in the title.
这是MMM的客座邮件吗？
仅仅因为你退休了，享受医疗保险并不意味着你就可以免费享受。我和我丈夫每年从SS中取出3200多美元，再加上我们每年支付超过4000美元购买一种补充药物（由于我们不吃药，这是灾难性的）、医生和医院，这些数字每年都在上升。
You and this guy “joe” both demonstrate bitterness while at the same time espousing your fantastic lifestyle.
On one hand you have worked crap jobs your entire life yet have accumulated a net worth in the 7 figures. Then you bemoan capitalism that provided you your net worth and disparage everyone around you.
It is hard determine if you dislike capitalism, people , or both.
如果你有7位数的净资产，那就吃点辣椒吧。他们有很冷的樱桃酱。